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track vs sport mode

JRabq

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#21
Ok so my 2017 Chall HC has a drive mode supplement (cover not so pretty as 2020).
Read it. It tells how to set the choices...default, custom, sport, track. It then describes what each does...more, less, enthusiast, blah blah.
But I must of missed how it accomplishes the task. i.e. modify throttle signal, modify timing, apply brakes, etc.
I'm not tryyinnng to be a nitwit, just trying to figure out how it works. One can spin the rears in street or sport easily on launch...plenty for the public roads in either mode. But am I leaving acceleration on the table by being in street traction vs sport traction once I hook up?
 

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#22
JRABQ,
Have you thought about learning about how to tune a car?? Back a few years ago,, I went the the same senareo as you and I learned how to tune. Got me thru this mental malfunction we have. Esspicially when some one gives us 1/2 the story. Go find it.
 

JRabq

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#23
JRABQ,
Have you thought about learning about how to tune a car?? Back a few years ago,, I went the the same senareo as you and I learned how to tune. Got me thru this mental malfunction we have. Esspicially when some one gives us 1/2 the story. Go find it.
Thank you Hickster, sound advice. At this point I spend about 90% of my time keeping my biz afloat. But I am seeing the flicker of slowing down and I love this stuff...so in due time. Tnx.
 

stonewall

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#24
Ok so my 2017 Chall HC has a drive mode supplement (cover not so pretty as 2020).
Read it. It tells how to set the choices...default, custom, sport, track. It then describes what each does...more, less, enthusiast, blah blah.
But I must of missed how it accomplishes the task. i.e. modify throttle signal, modify timing, apply brakes, etc.
I'm not tryyinnng to be a nitwit, just trying to figure out how it works. One can spin the rears in street or sport easily on launch...plenty for the public roads in either mode. But am I leaving acceleration on the table by being in street traction vs sport traction once I hook up?
Yes. https://www.dodge.com/challenger/safety-security.html
 

fumanchu182

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#25
@covidcommander tomorrow I will highlight the differences at the trans. Then Ill go into the tuning. Its 0130. I hate my car and need sleep.
 

Matt someone with an SRT

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#26
A little reading goes a long way. View attachment 52733
Owners Manual What’s that? 🤪. It’s like whenever you start a new project/tinkering with something and then it takes 30 minutes or an hour before you actually decide to look at the instructions 😄..
 

Matt someone with an SRT

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#27
JRABQ,
Have you thought about learning about how to tune a car?? Back a few years ago,, I went the the same senareo as you and I learned how to tune. Got me thru this mental malfunction we have. Esspicially when some one gives us 1/2 the story. Go find it.
Mental Malfunction where? 😂 love you poke. Glad you kept that spinning hell on wheels under control. I’ve had a couple scary scenarios myself like that but not as extreme
 

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#28
I’ll add to everyone’s intrigue. The ‘15 was cooled down, we warmed it up a bit, the DA this morning was less than 1000’, it was an outside dyno.

First pull - Default mide
Second - Sport Mode
Final and best pull, full Track Mode.

It got better and better. Maybe it was warming up more with each pull, but it was interesting. Nothing tells us the power changes with the mide settings, so I think it a coincidence. But it is fun figuring it all out.

One thing in all modes, if the tranny is in Track Mode the baffles are open. Can anyone share if the same happens with the tranny in Sport?

BE8C3DAA-A6A1-4FC9-8BFD-0CC529917D42.jpeg
 

coolblue

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#29
@MikeD1 is def correct on valve timing. Don't know the percentages but they are more aggressive in sport and track. So are the tranny shifts. Both rpm and firmness. My custom SRT setting is sport in all modes except steering (just my preference, don't like the wheel fighting me with more resistance all the time). I used to drive like this constantly full time. I then drove in standard/auto mode and thought my gas gauge was broken! It hardly moved (even in red key 797hp mode). When I drive in my custom mode, mpg is in the TANK.
 
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MikeD1

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#30
I’ll add to everyone’s intrigue. The ‘15 was cooled down, we warmed it up a bit, the DA this morning was less than 1000’, it was an outside dyno.

First pull - Default mide
Second - Sport Mode
Final and best pull, full Track Mode.

It got better and better. Maybe it was warming up more with each pull, but it was interesting. Nothing tells us the power changes with the mide settings, so I think it a coincidence. But it is fun figuring it all out.

One thing in all modes, if the tranny is in Track Mode the baffles are open. Can anyone share if the same happens with the tranny in Sport?

View attachment 52781

It is the tranny setting that controls the exhaust valves. I suspect they are wide open @ WOT even in Normal & Sport modes.
It would be interesting to have someone mount a GoPro under there & take a drive or even some dyno pulls and see how the valves react.

A 4th dyno run in normal mode would have been worth doing just to see if the power progression was due to things heating up or really related to the settings.
 

JRabq

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#31
Yes, but what are exhaust valves doing on an M6...no tranny mode to change...
 

JRabq

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#32
@MikeD1 is def correct on valve timing. Don't know the percentages but they are more aggressive in sport and track. So are the tranny shifts. Both rpm and firmness. My custom SRT setting is sport in all modes except steering (just my preference, don't like the wheel fighting me with more resistance all the time). I used to drive like this constantly full time. I then drove in standard/auto mode and thought my gas gauge was broken! It hardly moved (even in red key 797hp mode). When I drive in my custom mode, mpg is in the TANK.
Did you change driving style when in less agressive mode, accounting for change in fuel use? If not doesn't that imply modes affect the motor too?
 

MikeD1

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#33
Yes, but what are exhaust valves doing on an M6...no tranny mode to change...
I have never seen anything documented about how the valves work with a stick or if the modes change the mapping since there is no 'trans' setting.

Did you change driving style when in less agressive mode, accounting for change in fuel use? If not doesn't that imply modes affect the motor too?
I would expect mpg to go down in the more aggressive setting just from the trans holding the gears longer + not using 8th at all.
 

jroyk

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#34
Yes, but what are exhaust valves doing on an M6...no tranny mode to change...
Not much on my M6, as far as I can tell. Hard to perceive any increase in volume from the exhaust in Track Mode. It’s loud all the time.
 

DGatzby

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#35
It is the tranny setting that controls the exhaust valves. I suspect they are wide open @ WOT even in Normal & Sport modes.
It would be interesting to have someone mount a GoPro under there & take a drive or even some dyno pulls and see how the valves react.

A 4th dyno run in normal mode would have been worth doing just to see if the power progression was due to things heating up or really related to the settings.
Damn good idea! Oh well next time. Check out the 666 devil torque number in the third set. Very high and very strange I thought.

Damn Redeye runs like a beast in all the modes. Now that the temps are cooling off it becomes more apparent.
 

coolblue

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#36
Did you change driving style when in less agressive mode, accounting for change in fuel use? If not doesn't that imply modes affect the motor too?
Not at all. The car will change the 'style'. Meaning even if you push the gas down the exact same amount in both modes or go same exact speed, the car will be louder, hold gears longer, and "pop,pop,pop" coming off throttle in sport mode. I'm sure it's changing cam timing but also fuel pulse width on the injectors. I changed my oil with @1300mi of exclusive sport mode driving and it was very 'gassy' smelling. Plus, the gas gauge doesn't lie. You can practically see it move without driving like an animal. But if your willing to pay to play, the car is more responsive, fun and sounds nastier even without driving like your racing.
 

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#37
I am going to try the street mode here shortly///// Like I mentioned, if you like your ass handed to ya,,, sport is it.
 

coolblue

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#38
I am going to try the street mode here shortly///// Like I mentioned, if you like your ass handed to ya,,, sport is it.
I keep the Nitto NT05's on the rear in the summer for sure and the 555's in the front. Plus I like the no-wheel hop at all aspect.
 

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#39
That worked out better. I still have the stock tires on her feet. 13,000 miles on them at today with burn outs every outings. It will be time fer a back leg up grade in a few months. Starting to rain,,,, again. Always tomorrow.
 

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#40
In a Dodge for the most part with a ZF transmission the way the TCM will be more or less aggressive is determined by three factors: choosen setting, fred flinstone foot and road grade (up/down) hill. When you want to see the internals of the tune you log a few channels in HP tuners but the main ones are "trans shift situation" and "shift id". As an example at the track last night I was in "trans shift situation" = 4. What this means is that in the table 30004 (Shift Pattern Situation Mapping) you can glean the numbers 201/400 & 5/9 in the corresponding row. The count colums are a counter for how aggressive you have been with your foot. The more aggressive the higher up you go in count max and that is interpolated accross the range 5-9 (linear interpolation).

1630794061960.png

From there you map that to 30003 (Shift Pattern Driver Type Mapping).
1630794573640.png

As you can see I was in a range of 5-9 with different ranges. To see what that is really doing you will then take that data and map it to your aggression mapping. Example: Count Max: 400, Type Max: 9 would map in the following table (30002) Shift Pattern Aggression Mapping.

1630794713762.png

0 = Normal
1 = Normal Perf
2 = Sport
3 = Sport Perf
4 = Track

But wait WHY DO both sport and track blend into Sport Performance based on your aggression. In a hellcat Sport Perf. is the most balls out performance you can get in a stock tune. I will go into the aggression mapping now and how this relates to Shift ID. In your logs you usually log Shift ID. In my run last night I was in Agression Mode 2 (Sport) and hit Shift IDs 22, 17 and 7. Well that's all fine and dandy but what the hell do those mean? Look at this image below:

1630795104676.png

On Agg. 2 (Sport) I can only hit 2, 7, 12, 17 and 22. How the TCM determines this is deeper in the firmware and I'm sure using a linear interpolation like above AFAIK. Inside of these Shift ID's you have your OSS rpm shift parameters. OSS (output shaft speed) rpm gets converted to RPM for us non zf tcm people and that's the shift schedule your trans will shift at. Some are more aggressive than others. Well why do you have this dark knowledge, who did you kidnap at Dodge and eat his brain to learn this from, just why??? Well because I lurk on the HP Tuners forums and I wanted to learn how to tune my TCM. Now Lets revisit this talk about Sport vs. Track and confine it to the context of the TCM. Lets think about what happens at a drag strip vs a twisty. Twisty may have long runways, you may already be at speed coming out of a turn which means half mile down the road you can accelerate from 60 to 170. The tables reflect this and you can see in the absurd 9000 rpm shift from 7-8 that yes is programmed in the factory tune:

1630795866308.png
(4, 9 and 14 are from Aggression 4, track mode, also not all five tables, don't have a screen big enough for all 10 tables)

So from the factory why is sport performance, aggression 3 the best mode? Simply look at the tables in 3, 8 and 13:
1630796014893.png

It has a good blend of what you will see at higher RPM on the twisty and will hold gear better if you are doing a drag. Well how do I get to Sport Perf (aggr. 3) from my UConnect screen, you don't (maybe if you Fred Flinstone it enough you can drop into 3 which you usually will do at the track). What you do is get a custom tune where your tuner balls to the walls all three agressions and move along.

1630796232061.png

All my aggression settings from 2, 3, and 4 are pretty much the same and guarantee nuttyness in the 1->2->3->4->5 shifts at the track weather I select Sport or Track. If anyone has any TCM related questions for performance I can answer them to the best of my ability. Stay tuned part 2 for how the engine reacts based on modes is coming next. Hope this helps @covidcommander
 
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