Blown Motor Continued

[Speedy!]

did they comment on what mods where done on the 3 hellcats an where they all the same, curious to know.

Shop got back to me and said the cars were setup on a 6400-6500 rpm limit

Speedy, 4 cat engines, including yours, and one Demon. Same bank, same, end cylinder, I know it’s being declared rod failure, but it at least has to cross ones mind why all # 7.
Your thoughts. Coincidence, or possibly something more. Not trying to put Negative hype on it but does beg the question.

I honestly don't know. I assumed RPM based on everything I could find, but seems a lot of folks are reaching out to me. If my RE engine breaks, it's got a warranty for 12 months and I'll push this if it happens again. About the only time you'll here me say warranty.

Speedy, did you have any cylinder misfires happening at WOT/high rpms and prior to your engine's failure?

Nothing logged and now blinky light during the runs.

So is it safe to assume that the Demon/Redeye pistons are more stout and can handle 900 rwhp?

I wouldn't ass|u|me anything. We can only watch a few pushing high power through their cars and see. Demonology beats the piss outta his at 1000RWHP.

Pistons are weak on the Hellcat, mine did the same thing on a 8 second pass (well it ran 9.2 or 9.3 I forget) with a hole in the block.

@cole3986 was that cylinder 7?

 

[motorhead]

Question of the day: How many failures in manual transmission cars?

As we have seen high powered A8 cars programmed for 6500rpm shift points overshoot that value. How many times, in each case, before it is caught and corrected?

How many tuners sent cars out the door without track validation of a canned tune, before tweaking shift points in future canned tunes version 2.0? The damage was done.

Blaming OEM parts and engineering seems like a cop-out when you are pushing the limits by over 25%. I've said it before these things are leaving the factory set to 80% of their safe potential/threshold - removing the buffer is asking for failures. You cannot expect to double factory power in these engines the way you can with an LS or Coyote.

Mexican made engines filled with parts built by the lowest bidder, installed into cars that are final-assembled by workers who are high on cannabis. Blame Canada!

 

[Demoniccat]

Question of the day: How many failures in manual transmission cars?

As we have seen high powered A8 cars programmed for 6500rpm shift points overshoot that value. How many times, in each case, before it is caught and corrected?

How many tuners sent cars out the door without track validation of a canned tune, before tweaking shift points version 2.0 in future canned tunes? The damage was done.

Blaming OEM parts and engineering seems like a cop-out when you are pushing the limits by over 25%. I've said it before these things are leaving the factory set to 80% of their safe potential/threshold - removing the buffer is asking for failures. You cannot expect to double factory power in these engines the way you can with an LS or Coyote.

Mexican made engines filled with parts built by the lowest bidder, installed into cars that are final-assembled by workers who are high on cannabis. Blame Canada!

Now there is validation to buy a hellaphant, that’s hand built with select parts,

I would love to do a hardware acceptance test on one of those, now if I could only locate one that’s available, and locate the money I would be all set ay.

 

[cole3986]

Question of the day: How many failures in manual transmission cars?

As we have seen high powered A8 cars programmed for 6500rpm shift points overshoot that value. How many times, in each case, before it is caught and corrected?

How many tuners sent cars out the door without track validation of a canned tune, before tweaking shift points in future canned tunes version 2.0? The damage was done.

Blaming OEM parts and engineering seems like a cop-out when you are pushing the limits by over 25%. I've said it before these things are leaving the factory set to 80% of their safe potential/threshold - removing the buffer is asking for failures. You cannot expect to double factory power in these engines the way you can with an LS or Coyote.

Mexican made engines filled with parts built by the lowest bidder, installed into cars that are final-assembled by workers who are high on cannabis. Blame Canada!

An engine is only as strong as its weakest part. In the case of the hellcat motor, it is the piston/connected rod as evidenced by the numerous engine failures in the wrist pin area.

No expecting the stock motor to live at double the HP or at crazy RPM, the point is to educate the Forum of the weak points so the same thing does not happen (e.g. learn from our engine failures). IMO, upgrade these parts and send it

 

[Magnified]

Something is definitely going on with cylinder 7s. Seems like even the majority of misfires are on cylinder 7. I would think that this is not a coincidence and is likely that all cylinder 7s are the weak link. Seems like someone made a error when designing the CAD/CAM program for machining. Could be a small mistake in the code on cylinder 7. Seems strange though that Hellcats and Demons both have a cylinder 7 issue. Can't make the same mistake twice?...can they?
https://www.hellcat.org/threads/p0307-code-at-201-miles.11957/
https://www.hellcat.org/threads/upd...der-7-misfire-codes-p0171-p0296.164889/page-2
https://www.hellcat.org/threads/cylinder-7-misfire.135121/

They can, if they use the same machine settings for both blocks. Or the same portion of a particular setting that is bad. I was thinking manu defect for the rod, but you aren't going to have the bad rod always put into #7.

 

[cole3986]

Shop got back to me and said the cars were setup on a 6400-6500 rpm limit



I honestly don't know. I assumed RPM based on everything I could find, but seems a lot of folks are reaching out to me. If my RE engine breaks, it's got a warranty for 12 months and I'll push this if it happens again. About the only time you'll here me say warranty.



Nothing logged and now blinky light during the runs.



I wouldn't ass|u|me anything. We can only watch a few pushing high power through their cars and see. Demonology beats the piss outta his at 1000RWHP.



@cole3986 was that cylinder 7?

I am checking on that, I think it was the #2 or #4. As you stated, the piston was in the cylinder, the only damage to the motor (other the rod blowing out the block) was one slightly bent valves. I am looking for more photos of the piston in the block to determine which cylinder.

 

[Magnified]

I'd be curious on how the temp. of that cylinder compares to the rest at high revs. Sure looks like a pattern evolving.

Me too. Difference in water passages?

 

[cole3986]

BTW, what Speedy is doing would not be done by any race shop, why? Because there cars never break, to admit any failure potentially impacts sales and service, cannot have that.

For this reason, I give Speedy a big thumbs up

 

[Demoniccat]

Yes sir, speedy sure puts it out there with accurate vids and posts for everyone to benefit
from. You as well Cole. Your new venture looks Like one hell of a mission for speed to say the least.

 

[Speedy!]

Thanks just tryin' to help.

 

[68GoldRunner]

Thanks again to Speedy for all his research and time sharing this info. Following.

 

[72 440 Barracuda]

I think cylinder 7 is the key - looking at whats unique to 7. Fuel seems to be a good path (pressure on 7 vs any of the other cylinders), but what about oiling? Is 7 different from that aspect? The Hellcat/Demon/Redeye have oil squirters aimed at the bottom of the piston if I remember right - that might be something to look at as well.

 

[MiHiHemi]

In aviation, we can monitor individual cylinder head temps. Would be kinda interesting if we could do that on our V8's.

Bull, you know aircraft engines. What do you think?

 

[Hemituner]

BTW, what Speedy is doing would not be done by any race shop, why? Because there cars never break, to admit any failure potentially impacts sales and service, cannot have that.

For this reason, I give Speedy a big thumbs up

Cole:
I disagree with your assessment. The real problem is most shops are willing to sell a client on a ticking time bomb then flame another shop for wanting to do it right....ask me how I know. Here is the HARD truth that no one wants to admit. Back in 2010 a responsible shop would never sell a client a 300 WHP upgrade on a stock 5.7, 6.1, or 6.4. Guess what....its not a good idea on a 6.2 either.
Thanks
AJ

 

[Speedy!]

Cole:
I disagree with your assessment. The real problem is most shops are willing to sell a client on a ticking time bomb then flame another shop for wanting to do it right....ask me how I know. Here is the HARD truth that no one wants to admit. Back in 2010 a responsible shop would never sell a client a 300 WHP upgrade on a stock 5.7, 6.1, or 6.4. Guess what....its not a good idea on a 6.2 either.
Thanks
AJ

@Hemituner
Good to see you post here AJ. I think the difference on those old engines is they were not forced induction from the factory. Everything I've seen up until literally just recently has suggested the Hellcat engine platform was all but bullet proof and only those pushing the out fringes of horse power were (or would) have problems. We're in the 4th year of this platform and I'm not sure how many have failed, but I have been surprised at the number of people that contacted me directly.

You then have folks like Demonology and Jon Sipple who are having great success at very high horse power levels. I had long conversations with Sipple at VMP last year and he claimed to be running a 2.65 upper, pinned lower, and at least a 100 shot on his car and ran multiple 10.0s on the pulley and 9.50s on spray. He told me he didn't like race gas and was using 93 octane with no additive. I was kinda surprised to hear that last part.

Not at all disagreeing with you, just seems these weaknesses in the HC engine platform weren't coming to light previously. If you know of that being shared and I'm in the dark enlighten me

 

[cole3986]

Cole:
I disagree with your assessment. The real problem is most shops are willing to sell a client on a ticking time bomb then flame another shop for wanting to do it right....ask me how I know. Here is the HARD truth that no one wants to admit. Back in 2010 a responsible shop would never sell a client a 300 WHP upgrade on a stock 5.7, 6.1, or 6.4. Guess what....its not a good idea on a 6.2 either.
Thanks
AJ

AJ,

I agree with Speedy on this, in that I have not read any thread other than mine and Speedy regarding the piston failure. Mine failed in fall of 2017, there have been many engine failures over the last few years but very few elaborate on what happened and actually give advice on how to avoid.

Racing modded cars and breaking parts go hand and hand. However, so many cherry pick (including race shops) and only post the time slips from glory passes (you know this). It is like the cars never break, unfortunately the limits are found by breaking parts.

The drag racing business is highly competitive and shops do not readily share information, in addition, no shop wants the reputation of blowing up cars. Just the way it is.