The dreaded lifter tick...

[BULL]

Two reasons for the Hellcat lifter -
1 - I believe the problems is related to the MDS oiling on the top end (MDS lifters), so I am deleting the MDS, which means I need new lifters.
2 - As far as I know the Hellcat doesn't have this issue, and from what I have seen the lifters are an upgrade to what was originally installed in the 392 - although I am having trouble defining what exactly was changed. Which is why I am asking everyone here.
The only real issue was removal of the MDS from the system, which means a mechanical change removing the lifters and solenoids and program which means a tune. Luckily this is a 2014 which can delete the MDS operation via a Diablo tuner - the MDS operation is turned off. The 2015 requires breaking into the PCM to change the tune.
I watched the video above and it didnt make sense, since the oil galley supplies the lifter galleys (bores) directly and the lifter itself (lifter pump) is supplied via the pushrod which is controlled by the MDS system - another variable which I am still trying to fully understand. Any Techs out there that can explain the MDS operation of the lifters?
Like I mentioned above - I think the issue is tied to the MDS so I am going to remove it from the engine.

I know a guy...

No, really, I do... Let me ask him for input on this, might take a day or so.

 

[72 440 Barracuda]

I know a guy...

No, really, I do... Let me ask him for input on this, might take a day or so.

I now have the pass side head off and the lifters are out - here is what I found:
Intake lifter on cylinder#2:

another picture of the lifter:

And the cam lobe for the intake side of cylinder#2:

The cam lobe looks pretty good (relatively speaking), so I am relieved that the motor should be OK. I cut open the filter and it appears to have captured the metal shavings on the oil pump side of the filter and the amount of material from the cam and lifter should be minimal and contained in an area I can work with:
Here is what came out of the filer:

not perfect but the Mopar filter did it's job....

 

[jroyk]

I’ve been reading cases like this on BITOG for years. Sure seems like FCA could come up with a fix.

 

[BULL]

Wow...

I'm sorry...

That's something just short of FUBAR...

 

[72 440 Barracuda]

Wow...

I'm sorry...

That's something just short of FUBAR...

It sucks, but I can fix it and its better than a new motor...

 

[BULL]

Are you leaving or replacing the cam???

(replace is my vote...)

 

[72 440 Barracuda]

Definitely replacing the cam, lifters, probably oil pump and timing set. I hope not to be this deep in the motor again...

 

[SilverBillet]

Does the lifter have a flat spot on it? Did the roller freeze up?

 

[72 440 Barracuda]

Does the lifter have a flat spot on it? Did the roller freeze up?

Yes, the roller has a small flat spot and the lifter is froze. The pictures are a little weak, but you can see it...
This might show a little better - good vs bad roller surface;

 

[jroyk]

Yes, the roller has a small flat spot and the lifter is froze. The pictures are a little weak, but you can see it...
This might show a little better - good vs bad roller surface;
View attachment 25969

Yikes!

 

[SilverBillet]

Yes, the roller has a small flat spot and the lifter is froze. The pictures are a little weak, but you can see it...
This might show a little better - good vs bad roller surface;
View attachment 25969

That really means the cam lobe is “wiped”. Sounds like you realized it right away. Cam is not good enough to just replace the lifters.

 

[stonewall]

Question OP. Was the proper weight and spec oil used in this engine from day one? I ask because of information of improper MDS operation if wrong viscosity oil is used. Which can effect lubrication to all components. My 2012 Yellow Jacket M6 had the 392 without MDS. and it had lifter tick when the weather turned cold, and towards the end of oil change cycle. on start up, but would quite down as the engine warmed up.

 

[72 440 Barracuda]

Question OP. Was the proper weight and spec oil used in this engine from day one? I ask because of information of improper MDS operation if wrong viscosity oil is used. Which can effect lubrication to all components. My 2012 Yellow Jacket M6 had the 392 without MDS. and it had lifter tick when the weather turned cold, and towards the end of oil change cycle. on start up, but would quite down as the engine warmed up.

Since I have had it, it has has oil changes according to the manual (interval was per the computer, the oil was Pennzoil 0W-40, and the filer was the SRT or standard Mopar or possibly a Wix filter).
I have had the car for approx 2 years as a daily driver and it now has approx 76,000 miles (purchased with 60K if I remember right). Prior to that I can't be sure, but obviously this started in the last couple hundred miles. I had no lifter tick on startup and the loud tick only came on under a light load and acceleration (say 30-45 miles an hour right about where the MDS would kick in) - it started with a very light tick (right at the threshold of hearing it) and proceeded to get louder and more pronounced over time. I was pretty adamant that the motor was fine and suspected a bad injector, but never had a noise that I could isolate or reproduce unless it was being driven. Ultimately I found it after a recommendation from a Chrysler Tech to do a compression test (static and running) - the static showed about 230 PSI vs approx 195 in the other cylinders on bank 2 (pass side), the running compression test showed 65 PSI on the forward plug hole and 35 PSI on the rear plug for cylinder 2 (yes - the same cylinder ) and 35 PSI on on all other plugs/cylinders on bank 2.
This the first time I have done a running cylinder test, but it showed an issue on the cylinder, which led me to pull the valve cover and check for valve movement at the rocker - which then showed an obvious difference on the intake side of cylinder 2.
If you think you might have an issue I would start here. It started for me with the code P219B. Glad I caught it early and I am pretty sure no damage has been caused to the motor that cant be fixed fairly easily (no motor rebuild or replacement).

 

[72 440 Barracuda]

That really means the cam lobe is “wiped”. Sounds like you realized it right away. Cam is not good enough to just replace the lifters.

Correct. A new cam, lifters (Hellcat lifters) and associated components are on the way.

 

[72 440 Barracuda]

That really means the cam lobe is “wiped”. Sounds like you realized it right away. Cam is not good enough to just replace the lifters.

I finally got the cam out, and the lobe was worse than I I thought, looking thru the lifter hole I could see cam wear from the lifter but the bad side of the cam wasnt visible at the time.
I ended up pulling the oil pan and oil pump to clean everything out. The pump didnt show any excessive wear, but it did show some, so I am replacing it.

 

[SilverBillet]

I finally got the cam out, and the lobe was worse than I I thought, looking thru the lifter hole I could see cam wear from the lifter but the bad side of the cam wasnt visible at the time.
View attachment 26374 I ended up pulling the oil pan and oil pump to clean everything out. The pump didnt show any excessive wear, but it did show some, so I am replacing it.

Wow! Had to be making noise for some time?

 

[72 440 Barracuda]

Wow! Had to be making noise for some time?

For the most part - No. I am pretty sure most of this damage was done in the last couple hundred miles, it was making noise, but it wasnt making noise like you would expect from what you see, at an idle I couldnt hear anything - even with a stethoscope...

 

[SilverBillet]

My lifter on my R/T was bad but the tech said the cam was not hurt. He said he checked it with a borescope. Lucky the roller did not freeze up and I had the BGProducts warranty that covered the cost (all except the extra lifters and full fuel system service). However, I decided to sell the car and never took it home after the lifter was fixed. I sold the car back to the Dodge dealer a few minutes after I paid the balance of the bill. Miss the car but glad not to have to worry about it anymore.

 

[BULL]

Our Durango with a 5.7 has a tick as well.

It still runs and we don't have any codes, so for now, I'm ignoring it...

It's a backup car and goes out once a week to dog training, that's about it.


Fingers crossed.

 

[SilverBillet]

I never heard a real noticeable tick. The typical code indicate a “miss detected in cyl #___”. Mine was number 5. Once I checked it more closely, and eliminated everything else, I could barely hear a slight miss out of the left exhaust pipe.