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Security update

Prange

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It's a little different here in Illinois.

The Illinois Lemon Law affords consumers the ability to seek a refund or replacement for their defective vehicle if the vehicle's manufacturer, through its authorized dealers, fails to repair a defect that substantially impairs the vehicle's use, value, or safety within a reasonable number of attempts.

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Too bad there's not a Lemon Law for politicians.
 


06SRT10NR

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#22
^^ They sent me the same notice about a week ago for my 18...if they don't have the patch, why would they do that????
going to guess one contractor writing the software/firmware, different contractor responsible for patch distro, third contractor handling communication, and rules in place preventing them from coordinating the release.
 


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Thread Starter #23
after two hours, determined the new radio that came in was once again not compatible.
and re the security update - software/firmware patch for 2018's is not available yet
Huh? Are we talking about the same thing? I have a 2018 and received a letter then confirmed with the dealer and they said yes bring it in. This for
TSB 08-087-22


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2fast4u

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#24
^^ That is exactly the same letter, except the VIN..
 


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Thread Starter #25
^^ That is exactly the same letter, except the VIN..
Yes that was pulled up at the dealer with the TSB number.

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My security up date is to reload my guns.
 


2fast4u

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^^ mine came in the mail...
 


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So I'm watching Auto Mundial on Motortrend dated May 12 2022 and they report that Stellantis wants a fully connected vehicles more like a tech company than a car manufacturer..( think Tesla) and is going to spend 20 Billion Euros In revenues by creating subscription services on over the air updates....by 2030

However....they acknowledge they have 12 million vehicles already connected today..

They estimate they will have 34 million connected cars by 2030.

So understand this..

I am a avionics guy on aircraft...

Just a every day dummy jerk Factory trained on a dozen avionics manufacturers..
However the closest manufacturer today to what Stellantis proposes in Garmin avionics.

They load all the options based software straight from from the factory..like Sirius XM Weather..autoland..wifi upload..the whole bit
.and then sell SD micro cards at $10 to 50 K dollars each to "unlock" all of those special features.

On the flip side the aircraft OEM's can track all the operational features of everything on that aircraft for years...

I can't tell you how many customers I had to deny warrantee claims to because they operated the aircraft beyond design limits.

Now damn near ever aircraft you fly on today sends real time info to either the Airframe or engine manufacturer...to keep monitoring everything.

Again lots of warrantee claims denied.

The "connected world" is not good...
 


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Blown7

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#29
BTW every Hellcat, Trackhackhawk, V6 Hemi Scat Pak and Dragpak Challenger and Charger we collectively all own fall under the 12 million vehicles to date.
Let that sink in a minute........
 


Jimmy N.

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#30
BTW every Hellcat, Trackhackhawk, V6 Hemi Scat Pak and Dragpak Challenger and Charger we collectively all own fall under the 12 million vehicles to date.
Let that sink in a minute........
That's one reason I do the break-in according to the book, and then some.
 


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#31
BTW every Hellcat, Trackhackhawk, V6 Hemi Scat Pak and Dragpak Challenger and Charger we collectively all own fall under the 12 million vehicles to date.
Let that sink in a minute........
Not mine.

LOL

Lima
Golf
Bravo
 


Finface

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There are two separate theft vulnerabilities to discuss regarding our radio frequency key fobs. The device that can start our cars without a key fob, and the device that can steal our key fob's code.

I got the notification letter from Dodge telling me about this RFHM security upgrade a few months ago while my car was in winter storage. The letter said the upgrade was free for my 2019 Challenger Red Eye. Yesterday I spoke with the service manager at my dealership about the upgrade. He said it takes about an hour and half.

He also said the radio frequency device thieves are now using to start our cars is commercially available. My dealership had 7 cars stolen at one time from its lot last fall by a gang of thieves using this device. With this theft device a thief doesn't have to steal your key fob's code by being near your fob. When I bought my car in early 2019 that was the only concern I'd heard about - that somebody could have a scanner and as you walk by they could read your fob code, then use that code for car entry and start. There is a YouTube video where in London two thieves in biohazard suits to avoid camera identification read a car's key fob from outside the owner's flat, unlock the doors, start the engine and proceed to drive off. Took just about a minute.

We can reduce the likelihood of key fob codes being stolen with a pocket-sized faraday cage pouch which shields fobs from being scanned. These faraday pouches are about $15 each. I won't go into all the things you have to guard against even with a pouch here, but in essence anyone within the range of your fob (think how far away from your car you can lock or unlock, or remote start it) might be able to steal your fob's code whenever it is outside a faraday pouch.

But this new theft device is different. Somehow it either scans for and discovers, or perhaps reprograms, the RFHM motherboard. It then utilizes this information to start our cars. The service manager said they can steal a car in about 15 seconds with it - he clocked an eighth theft on their lot on their security camera. From Slim-Jimming the driver's side door lock to driving off.

So the no-charge dealership RFHM upgrade pairing and locking the motherboard to our key fobs foils this new theft device. Without thieves changing out an RFHM motherboard in the car the security upgrade will prevent any device other than the fobs programmed to work with the motherboard from starting the car. Changing out an original fob's CR 2032 battery won't render it useless so that's good to know. If we were to need a new fob(s) sometime in the future after this modification then it will be costly to us. A couple of new fobs and a new motherboard - and the dealership labor to install and program - I'm guessing about $800 to $900. If we get it done then our cars cannot be started and driven away without a thief possessing one of our original fobs, or, importantly, having successfully stolen our fob's code with a reader - that is still a possibility.

I couldn't find my letter so I called Dodge Cares - 800-423-6343 - and they were great. They called my dealership and set up an appointment for me next week to get this upgrade done. Once it is done I'll try and talk my insurance company into lowering my Hellcat's comprehensive premium, as this is obviously a major theft prevention upgrade. And I'll sleep easier on HPDE overnights at hotels.
 


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#33
There are better ways, to secure your vehicle.

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Diboblo

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#34
Also, IIRC, this is already the case.

If you lose a Hellcat fob, you cannot program another, to the RF hub. 3 is all you get. I don't know why dealers/Stellantis is saying this is a new feature.

Your keys are locked, to your RF hub.

Your RF hub will only accept those mac addresses... this is why cloned keys, or cloned data, works. (Did I say that out loud?)

Also, this is not the first security update, on this platform. Early build vulnerabilities were HUGE.

Bad idea, to broadcast security data, from the vehicle, in the first place.



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Finface

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#35
My car is a 2019 model. Do later year models have a four digit code the driver has to punch into the UConnect to start? Did I read this extra step to start the engine code might be a settings option?

Diboblo, are you saying what you said about fobs already being locked to the RF hub about newer than 2019 models? Because were I not to do this security upgrade I believe I could simply buy an extra fob and it could be hooked to my existing hub.
 


Diboblo

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#36
2015 on, you get 3 keys. 2 red.1 black. That's it. Lose one... you're down to 2. Need another... it's time for a new RF hub and keys.

Need 4 keys. Nope. Not gonna happen.

Hellcat RF hub is limited to 3 keys, paired to it.

Mine is a 2015. I bought it used. Dude sent me 1 red. 1 black. He swore he had all 3 keys and was looking for it.

In the mean time, went to the dealer, for a quote on a replacement. This is when they told me what I just stated, above.

Fortunately, dude found the missing key and sent it. Dodged an expensive bullet.

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Diboblo

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#37
My car is a 2019 model. Do later year models have a four digit code the driver has to punch into the UConnect to start? Did I read this extra step to start the engine code might be a settings option?

Diboblo, are you saying what you said about fobs already being locked to the RF hub about newer than 2019 models? Because were I not to do this security upgrade I believe I could simply buy an extra fob and it could be hooked to my existing hub.
The new "security" patch sets code needed to start the car.

There is also a code needed, to disable vallet mode, on all 2015+ Hellcats.

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#38
The new "security" patch sets code needed to start the car.

There is also a code needed, to disable vallet mode, on all 2015+ Hellcats.

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You are correct - and I was confused about how this works so thank you for your reply. I should have done more homework before posting. Even my service manager was unsure last week of all the upgrade details and operating ramifications. If what follows is old news on the forum, well, I didn't find it doing a word search.

I found this article link below from August, 2021, about the 3 different things the free security upgrade does. Here is the lead in paragraph...

"Dodge has developed three new security measures to help protect owners from having their vehicles stolen by thieves. This includes the Enhanced Security Mode, Key Programming Lockdown and the Intrusion Module."

https://www.dodgegarage.com/news/ar...nces-three-new-theft-protection-measures.html

The article seems to imply that car owners can choose to have just the Enhanced Security Mode upgrade, and not the Key Programming Lockdown upgrade, or vice versa. Does anyone know for sure about this? I'll pick my service manager's brain on June 3rd when I get both done. Of note, statistically in the grand picture of car theft in America, the article points out our cars are unlikely to be stolen on any given day. But then again, it was written almost a year ago...

Only the last facet of the upgrade - the Intrusion Module - which senses window breakage, and/or noises from inside the car, and tilt sensing in case of a towing attempt, all of which will trigger the existing car alarm, isn't available for pre-2022 model year cars.

I also found a YouTube video showing how the Enhanced Security Mode of this free security upgrade alters our current Valet Mode into an enduring (unless changed back by dealer with another reflash) driver option, which when arming it each time we shut down the engine, turns it into a completely different Valet Mode. It's more accurate to say Valet Mode no more. If you want to you can arm "Valet Mode" (really not a Valet Mode anymore - does the menu do away with Valet Mode terminology?) by inputting on UConnect any four digit code that would then require - after the next engine start - inputting the same four digit code to enable the engine to develop more than 2.8 HP at idle RPM. Thieves can still steal our fob codes with repeaters or scanners, or break into the car and use that damnable device which they jack into the OBD port, to start the engine. But without our code being subsequently input on UConnect they are stuck with an engine that won't rev above idle. Flooring it without the code just makes the engine cut out and stutter. This is true for anyone legitimately using our key fobs too. No code, no go (very far, very fast). If you're one not to bother keeping your key fobs in a faraday pouch and someone steals the fob code, and you haven't enabled this Enhanced Security Mode prior to engine shutdown, or done something else in the anti-theft department like pull the fuel pump circuit breaker, a thief could normally drive off with your car.


There are pros and cons to getting these upgrades, but on balance I will have more peace of mind by upgrading. In the con category, if you need to get away fast after jumping into a shut down car after enabling the new Valet Mode requiring code input you'll be frustrated (possibly endangered) by having to start the engine and then wait for the UConnect pages to load so you can punch in the code. Speaking here a little tongue in cheek, should the code entry delay force you to shoot a parking lot attacker instead of driving away your response to a prosecuting attorney (at your trial for manslaughter - it's California) would be you could not retreat. On the pro side this 30 second or do delay is a forced short engine warmup wait. However, it is always optional to arm a reconfigured "Valet Mode" - the car will start and run normally if you don't want to set it up prior to shutting down the engine. Ooops, now the prosecuting attorney will drill you about why you didn't choose not to arm the code entry for a faster getaway that would not have ended up with you shooting the attacker - you knowing, surely, that it is YOUR responsibility in California to prevent crime, not the criminally-minded. But, I digress...

Another con, for those of you who use Valet Mode, is you lose the current Valet Mode. You can't arm it and then hand the car over to the valet - unless you tell him or her the code so they can bring the car back at faster than idle speed (if there are no hills - 3 HP and idle probably not going to drive our cars up much of a hill). So for all practical purposes the current Valet Mode is gone. If you arm it and give the code to the valet you're enabling a possible "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" joy riding, hill-jumping nightmare.

However, the good news according to the article, is Enhanced Security Mode facet of the software upgrade can be reversed by the dealership if you decide you don't want four digit "secondary authentication" which ensures the operator of your car is an authorized driver. Or, perhaps, after getting the upgrade you decide to let your 16 year old drive your high HP car and prefer them restricted to the current Valet Mode - limited to 70 mph I read - but somebody also said the engine still capable of pretty fast acceleration. But again, even though these first two facets of the security upgrade were rolled out sequentially months apart I don't know if they are individually selectable. Anyone? Bueller?

Not so with the Key Programming Lockdown part of the upgrade. That's the permanent change where losing key fobs becomes more expensive than just buying a replacement fob.

I hope this helps. If my service manager has more to add next week I'll pass it along in this thread.

Finface
 


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Thread Starter #39
Need 4 keys. Nope. Not gonna happen.

Hellcat RF hub is limited to 3 keys, paired to it.



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Are you positive about this? I think there have been members who bought extra key FOB's to have programmed before the dealer performs the security update to lock down the RF hub.

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Diboblo

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Are you positive about this? I think there have been members who bought extra key FOB's to have programmed before the dealer performs the security update to lock down the RF hub.

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Just what I was told, by the dealer.

We all know how reliable they are...

Your mileage may vary.

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