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More Wheel / Suspension problems

Magnified

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#1
So, amongst all the other work related things I had to do today, I took the Charger to the wheel and tire shop I use and have them pull my other two OEM wheels (that are in their storage room) and dismount and dispose the old OEM tires on them. Then we pull the new rubber off the to fronts (the one that is out of round, and the other that's just a little off). Balance the set up, doesn't look bad. This work was done by the managers, personally, at no charge. Put it back on the car. Later, after more work related stuff, I take it for a series of tests. It is worse than before. As you pass the 110 mark it gets pretty damn scary actually. But under 80, it's just butter.

Here is the kicker: while the front is off the ground I inspect the rotors. Starting to get a little lip at the edge as they're wearing (after three years, not too bad - have pics, won't bore you). However, on the right side, where we had the wheel come apart (as one of you observed, looking like a lathe had been taken to it), I found what looked like a strap hanging from the brembo calipers. When I investigated, I found this was an 8' long piece of tire, almost 1 cm by 1 cm in cross section. It was wrapped around the inside hub, behind the rotor, and was a son of a bitch to get off. So that's where at least some of the lathe droppings went.

So, this is my off the cuff thinking.

1. The two new tires are bad. Simply can't be balanced, will have to go back to the seller for replacement (which I'm sure will be a fight).

2. The "latheing" near-blow out (or the impact that threw the wheel out of our round) completely screwed up the alignment so bad that over 80 it's just completely F-ed.

When I return from New Mexico I'm heading to my other friends shop to have them check the alignment and balance. If its all good and we're still trying to shake the car apart, off the tires will come. Share thoughts if you think I"m missing something in my thoughts (I'm old remember), if you want to just offer your experiences, or if you want to call me a dick. It's all good.

Not that this would have been under warranty, but it really is suspicious that this all happens the instant the car is "mine" for real and not a lease anymore.

computer out the window.gif
 


The Englishman

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#2
Rotors warped? Especially if the strip of tyre impacted on the one in any way,I take it that was road debris?
 


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#3
If your car goes inbalanced @ around 80 mph, then it's wheel balance. Someone has balanced your tires on a Hunter Balancer with Smart Balance Mode ON, and this mode does NOT work on our cars. Many of us here have had the same issue @ 80 mph. Mine did it brand new with 80 miles on clock and @ 80 mph. There have been many posts here on how to fix with the correct balancing procedure. Do a search on my name with key word "balance" or "Smart Balance Mode OFF" and find a shop & a tech willing to do the procedures outlined.
 


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#4
Here's the Procedure:

Sounds like they didn't turn OFF Smart Balance Mode. Here's what you do :)

Find a local Discount Tire

Go in and sit down with the manager and explain your problem; ask for his most experienced tech to work on your car.

Ask the manager to let you out into the shop so you can observe. Make a point of telling them how you are fighting your issue and you need their help. Create a rapport with manager and the tech; I always do and it makes a difference! And the fact that your car is a HC always helps; puts you in a different category... the techs are drawn to it and they drool a bit :)

Ask the tech to do a fresh balancer calibration. They'll probably counter with "we do every morning" but ask them to humor you because of what you are fighting.

After the calibration, Smart Balance Mode has to be turned OFF again. You must make sure Smart Balance Mode is turned OFF. If the tech cannot get Smart Balance Mode OFF, you must find a tech/machine where this is possible. Make a significant point with the tech that our cars HATE Smart Balance Mode and absolutely does NOT work.

Balance the first wheel. If they can check/adjust Road Force, that is fine. Let them get Road Force (lateral/radial tire & wheel runout) within specs if necessary for each wheel. Make sure the tech removes ALL the old weights and ALL the stick on weight adhesive before balancing and I do mean ALL adhesive down to wheel surface; totally clean and like virgin new.

Once Road Force is within specs, the balancer will then go into balance mode... that's fine and expected.

Balance the wheel to zero with Smart Balance Mode always OFF.

Critical Step: Once the first wheel shows balanced, ask the tech to temporarily install a 3 oz weight on the inside/back plane of the wheel. Respin the wheel. The balancer should show the offset of the 3 oz weight on the INSIDE plane ONLY WITHOUT transferring to the outside/front plane. If this occurs, have the tech remove the test 3 oz weight & you are good to go. This step 'validates' the accuracy of the balancer and wheel balance. IF the 3 oz test weight is NOT properly offset (directly opposite) AND/OR any weight shows on the outside plane, there is a balancer/calibration issue ! If this step passes on the first wheel, you can do the rest of the wheels with a high level of confidence in the result.

Torque all lugs nuts to 115 Ft Lbs. Do not let them tighten with an impact; ask them to turn the impact down to start the lug nut if they want, but properly finish with a torque wrench.

Suggest tipping the tech a $20 bill.

Everything I just wrote I did. Not only was I able to teach the tech some tricks, but it fixed my identical issues.

Take a copy of the Discount Tire invoice back to your dealer service manager and ask for a Service Credit on your account.

You still need a proper 4-wheel alignment according to the numbers.
  • Rear thrust set to absolute 0.0 Degrees.
  • Rear Toes set to absolute .1 (point one) Degree Toed In for each wheel for a total of .2 degrees Toe In for the axle.
  • Front Toes set to absolute .1 (point one) Degree Toed In for each wheel for a total of .2 degrees Toe In for the axle, while centering the steering wheel. Align using the actual numbers per the above; do NOT let them do an "In the Green" alignment. Again, a monetary tip for the tech might be in order.
The alignment tech will have to go back and forth from rear axle to front and back and forth multiple times cause when one axle is changed, it affects the other.

Let us know....
 


Hellcatcfp

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#5
So, amongst all the other work related things I had to do today, I took the Charger to the wheel and tire shop I use and have them pull my other two OEM wheels (that are in their storage room) and dismount and dispose the old OEM tires on them. Then we pull the new rubber off the to fronts (the one that is out of round, and the other that's just a little off). Balance the set up, doesn't look bad. This work was done by the managers, personally, at no charge. Put it back on the car. Later, after more work related stuff, I take it for a series of tests. It is worse than before. As you pass the 110 mark it gets pretty damn scary actually. But under 80, it's just butter.

Here is the kicker: while the front is off the ground I inspect the rotors. Starting to get a little lip at the edge as they're wearing (after three years, not too bad - have pics, won't bore you). However, on the right side, where we had the wheel come apart (as one of you observed, looking like a lathe had been taken to it), I found what looked like a strap hanging from the brembo calipers. When I investigated, I found this was an 8' long piece of tire, almost 1 cm by 1 cm in cross section. It was wrapped around the inside hub, behind the rotor, and was a son of a bitch to get off. So that's where at least some of the lathe droppings went.

So, this is my off the cuff thinking.

1. The two new tires are bad. Simply can't be balanced, will have to go back to the seller for replacement (which I'm sure will be a fight).

2. The "latheing" near-blow out (or the impact that threw the wheel out of our round) completely screwed up the alignment so bad that over 80 it's just completely F-ed.

When I return from New Mexico I'm heading to my other friends shop to have them check the alignment and balance. If its all good and we're still trying to shake the car apart, off the tires will come. Share thoughts if you think I"m missing something in my thoughts (I'm old remember), if you want to just offer your experiences, or if you want to call me a dick. It's all good.

Not that this would have been under warranty, but it really is suspicious that this all happens the instant the car is "mine" for real and not a lease anymore.

View attachment 21050
Keep us updated. At my oil change I did a tire rotation (first one since brand new PS4s). Tech noticed some uneven wear (half the tire) and cross rotated them. Noticed the vibration again at 80 mph (though very little), but last time didn't? I had them done by a Hunter Elite machine and only 2 of 4 needed it. Are the Chargers just tire eaters? Subscribed for further developments.
 


TrackDay

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#6
After a few minutes of YouTube research I now know what "Smart Balance" is and have found a lot of posts previously that this is an issue with many high performance cars with low profile tires. And . . . I just got some new street tires and have an imbalance at about 80 MPH. No issue below that speed. Darnit.
 


Hellcatcfp

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#7
After a few minutes of YouTube research I now know what "Smart Balance" is and have found a lot of posts previously that this is an issue with many high performance cars with low profile tires. And . . . I just got some new street tires and have an imbalance at about 80 MPH. No issue below that speed. Darnit.
80 mph has been the vibration issue on front tires. PS4s smoothed it out, but rotation made it comeback? Maybe weight fell off...probably should go do them again (Hunter).
 


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#8
FWIW, everything I posted works if all steps are followed.

Last week, I took things a few steps further:

1. Purchased a 200-gram/7 Ounce electronic scales from Amazon for $20.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HGWFBTV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
2. Rebalanced all 4 at the Dodge Dealership.
3. The Tech did a fresh recal on his Hunter Balancer to start off right when I got there, turned Smart Balance Mode OFF and made the balancer show ALL of the weight and not round off.
4. Installed weights to EXACTLY match what the balancer wanted, i.e. if it wanted .6 oz, we trimmed the weight and confirmed with the scales.
5. We confirmed balancer calibration after first wheel was balanced with a test weight and all was good.
6. We balanced all 4 to ABSOLUTE ZERO.
7. Showed the tech how to dial in the weight positions on the verification spin; sometimes the weights have to be moved towards the top of the wheel by only a 1/4" to get to absolute zero. Sometimes, on the verification spin, the balancer would show the inside or outside weight at the 4 or 8 o'clock position and want more weight at 12 o'clock. I would ask the tech to move the inside/outside weight just a 1/4" towards the top, respin, and the balance would show zero and repeat at zero.
7. Gave the scales to the tech along with a $20 tip.

Tech was grateful I showed him how to do all this. I was in the stall with him the whole time. Again, rapport is valuable here :)

All of these steps can be done and solve the 80 mph issue many of us have or have had.

Best!
 


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