Another blown motor

[Octanewide]

This time a redeye with a broken connecting rod. Possibly from over reving as he was bouncing off the rev limiter on the burnout. No idea what that limiter was set at as it was tuned.

Details on the burned F8 Challenger at Woodward
https://www.allpar.com/news/2019/09/exclusive-details-on-the-burned-f8-challenger-at-woodward-45785

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[RGPIII]

I read this yesterday and thought we need to figure a way to limit the rpms on these. Seems to be the common denominator among the over revved engines. The easy answer is driver mod, but we all know shit happens. something I will be asking about for sure. I've read were there are overshooting set shift points.

 

[motorhead]

I've read were there are overshooting set shift points.

This is not a surprise - most tuners are utter trash. Consider for one moment who these people are: literally someone who bought HP Tuners online and started farting around, same as you and I could. They find a few key parameters (like raising the rev limiter and shift points) through trial and error (plus a little educated guessing), and blamo canned tunes for all! Think about it for a moment: Stage 1, 2, 3, 4, eleventy billion, all come as packages which includes a canned tune that is slightly tweaked to suit minor variances from car to car. Getting to this point required using your car as a test-bed - hence 90 dyno pulls to find a marginal improvement for that amateur in the article above. If you go back through the HP Tuners forum post history of most of the major players all asked novice questions (when they joined) about shit they claim to be an expert in, and charge big money for, today.

These are not OEM engineers, just folks mashing keys about as well as you could with a little practice and dedication. So, if they cannot figure out that an electrically commanded hydraulic system has an inherent delay, which will in turn cause your engine to smash past the limiter - do you really think they should be touching your car? None of this is new, there are lots of instances in the LS world of setting the RPM and calculated road speed to figures different from where they actually occur; quite often lower.

Take the time to learn how to tune your own car, and be accountable to yourself. It is actually pretty rewarding to be able to tune your own car.

 

[Octanewide]

True motorhead but I believe he had a well known tuner

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[Hemiride]

True motorhead but I believe he had a well known tuner

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And it took 90 dyno pulls to get the tune?

 

[Octanewide]

And it took 90 dyno pulls to get the tune?

Lol maybe I misunderstood who tuned his Redeye and yes 90 pulls means pack up and go elsewhere

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[Linda's Hell Cat]

From my personal experience working with AJ loading in the 1st Tune back in 2015 using a Diablo Tune into my Hellcat Charger to start the T&T and RD for Diablo and parts to make our Hellcats go Faster.
We then Contined further along with my husband who's Mighty Challenger known as Top Cat with Josh@HighHorsePerformance and we were all going to the track 3Xs a week. My husband had posted up all the results from the track. What was working and what was not.
My husband loved R&D had goals and paid for the parts and installation for his Hellcat and mine.
He knew there could be a chance of parts breaking and would have to pay but he also completely trusted Josh.

I see more problems because people just dont understand about a Hellcat and racing it.
Or going WOT. Oh and those that think they can Tune a Hemi!

But I do know my husband had posted a lot of information for members to use and learn by.
The tradition continues and there is much known info posted by many helpful members.
There is still R&D going on and the Redeyes have quite a bit attention for Tuning to go Faster.


Because I know without Hellcat owners like my husband taking the time and his money to go Faster.
You can do all the Tuning you want.......but it takes modifying with parts to go Faster.
Today there is a Huge market for aftermarket parts.
Aftermarket part makers rely on
Trusted Tuners and Speed shops who will get thier products to market alot quicke


Linda

This is not a surprise - most tuners are utter trash. Consider for one moment who these people are: literally someone who bought HP Tuners online and started farting around, same as you and I could. They find a few key parameters (like raising the rev limiter and shift points) through trial and error (plus a little educated guessing), and blamo canned tunes for all! Think about it for a moment: Stage 1, 2, 3, 4, eleventy billion, all come as packages which includes a canned tune that is slightly tweaked to suit minor variances from car to car. Getting to this point required using your car as a test-bed - hence 90 dyno pulls to find a marginal improvement for that amateur in the article above. If you go back through the HP Tuners forum post history of most of the major players all asked novice questions (when they joined) about shit they claim to be an expert in, and charge big money for, today.

These are not OEM engineers, just folks mashing keys about as well as you could with a little practice and dedication. So, if they cannot figure out that an electrically commanded hydraulic system has an inherent delay, which will in turn cause your engine to smash past the limiter - do you really think they should be touching your car? None of this is new, there are lots of instances in the LS world of setting the RPM and calculated road speed to figures different from where they actually occur; quite often lower.

Take the time to learn how to tune your own car, and be accountable to yourself. It is actually pretty rewarding to be able to tune your own car.

 

[Speedy!]

Guys, let's be careful and stick to facts when we see these issues. This is one of the folks that reached out to me after I posted my engine tear down video a couple of weeks back. We actually had about a 30 minute phone call and he filled me in on all the details.

This car had STOCK shift points. This car was tuned by someone I consider an EXPERT tuner AFTER it was worked on by an import shop.

The car was INITIALLY at an import shop and the tuner obviously didn't know Mopars and took an extreme amount of dyno pulls trying to dial it in, and it didn't run well (fast). Once the owner got with AJ, everything was sorted and the car made proper power and ran proper times.

The car had upper/lower pulleys had run 9.50s at the MSHS event this particular weekend, and broke a rod doing a burnout on Woodward ave.

Something seems to be up with some of the rods in these cars. I sent two Hellcat pistons from another failed motor and what was left of MY broken piston to 16GoManGo and he did some analysis on it and had one of his engine builders take a look as well. Both pistons I sent him had bent rods (I didn't notice when I had them, but once he mentioned it OBVIOUS). His engine builder suggested my rod had bent and that's what broke the piston in my car.

It's not every engine. We have several folks out there making 1000RWHP and beating their cars without issue. Jon Sipple is one example. Demonology is another.

I honestly don't know what to think, but I'm gonna beat on my new RE motor like it's a red headed step child this fall. If it breaks, I'll be calling Mopar.

@Linda's Hell Cat is Topcat still on the stock internals or have they been upgraded?

 

[MaxCarnage]

According to the article he had an import tuner tune it at first. He was the one that took 90 dynos or so to "tune" it. Then the owner found AJ aka Hemituner a widely know tuner, and he fixed his tune. After that the owner did a burnout (from the sounds of it, in manual mode) and wasn't able to keep up with the shifting as it bounced off the rev limiter. That's what is believed to have caused the damage, but it's hard to say if the previous tune didn't cause some underlying issues as well before AJ was able to fix it.

That said I use the line lock (it's there for a reason!!), keep the car in drive and let the car shift as needed during a burnout. Care is needed if you're going full manual mode. These cars rev to 6500rpm in a hurry!

 

[Octanewide]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this is the first Redeye I've heard of breaking a rod as aren't they supposedly stronger than a Hellcat rod?

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[RGPIII]

This still makes me ask the question. Is there an option to add a rev limiter. One that cannot be pushed thru? I'll take a botched 1/4 pass if it hits the limiter, over a windowed block everyday.
Agreed I leave mine in drive for the Burnout and let it shift. That's the way i'm sure ill always do the burnout.

 

[Markp]

I know you guys don't want to hear this but this is why I want to keep my car stock. Mid to low 10s with warranty is good enough for me. When the warranty is up maybe then I will do very mild mods. I want to keep my Redeye forever. I accidentally ran my Redeye in manual mode in 1st gear down the whole track bouncing off the rev limiter. Did a 1.48 60ft engine is fine. You can't blame dodge when you mod a car and something breaks. You blame the mods.

 

[2fast4u]

I am curious as well if this is the 1st redeye motor to lose a rod...was it #7 as well?

 

[Speedy!]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this is the first Redeye I've heard of breaking a rod as aren't they supposedly stronger than a Hellcat rod?

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Several have been reported. Couple of Demons as well.

This still makes me ask the question. Is there an option to add a rev limiter. One that cannot be pushed thru? I'll take a botched 1/4 pass if it hits the limiter, over a windowed block everyday.
Agreed I leave mine in drive for the Burnout and let it shift. That's the way i'm sure ill always do the burnout.

Revlimter is a revlimiter. This owner didn't push through, he just bounced off the stock setting. I don't run my car in manual, but does it actually hit the revlimiter and not shift up in "M" manual mode? I know in paddle mode which I use often, it shifts up appropriately and that's what I use in the burnout box. I've not seen a reason to use manual mode personally.

I know you guys don't want to hear this but this is why I want to keep my car stock. Mid to low 10s with warranty is good enough for me. When the warranty is up maybe then I will do very mild mods. I want to keep my Redeye forever. I accidentally ran my Redeye in manual mode in 1st gear down the whole track bouncing off the rev limiter. Did a 1.48 60ft engine is fine. You can't blame dodge when you mod a car and something breaks. You blame the mods.

Nothing wrong with that if you're happy with the car's performance. I just like to tinker and I'm OK with fixing broken parts if needed. My new RE engine has a warranty, so we'll see on it. Hopefully I won't need it. My goals aren't any more than what Demons are known to run. Dropping in better forged pistons and rods is advisable though, then spin the thing to 7200 and never look back.

 

[Demon1]

And it took 90 dyno pulls to get the tune?

The original tuner (not AJ/@Hemituner) did 90 dyno pulls. AJ came into the picture later and corrected a lot of junk done by the previous tuner.

 

[Linda's Hell Cat]

"Fortunately, all of those people along the road, carrying coolers full of cold drinks where quick to help. Golden opened his hood and passersby attacked the flames with bottles of water, coolers of ice and anything else that might slow the flames. Less than a minute later, a swarm of racers including Modern Street Hemi Shootout boss Dan VanHorn had run from the parking lot with fire extinguishers to battle the fire while other members of the modern Mopar community dug into the trunk to remove the fuel pump fuses in order to prevent the fire from continuing. All said and done, it only took a few minutes before the flames and smoke were gone, with the crowd gathering around the burned muscle car sitting in the “fast lane” of Woodward Avenue. "

I am very proud of my friends who are the MSHS racers for being able to get this Fire out Quick. It's always good to be with knowledgeable Hemi racers who are prepared!

Linda

 

[Demon1]

Doing a proper burnout doesn’t require hitting close to the rev limiter. I see people all the time stab the throttle. It makes me cringe when I hear the rev limiter kick in. Just get the tires spinning and roll into the throttle. If you don’t use the line lock, use the brake to hold the front tires.

 

[Speedy!]

^^ I agree but it does take practice and not everyone is used to this type of horse power.

 

[Linda's Hell Cat]

@Speedy!
Top Cat engine is stock internals with Heads and Cam.

Linda

 

[fubar569]

I mean...I've seen 6500 a couple of times and 6700 by accident. Now I set my lights at 6000. No more horsef@%$ery.

The car itself has the proper safeguards...it's up to the driver to not be a meathead.